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Is Gordie Howe the Greatest of All Time?

Prior to Bobby Orr‘s arrival, there was a consensus hockey GOAT (Greatest of All Time), Gordie Howe. That was due both to Howe’s dominance but, more importantly, his unprecedented longevity. Howe may have only been the best player in the NHL for six or so seasons, but he was one of the 10 best players in the NHL for over two decades.

Since then, there are a few other contenders for the throne. And the biggest knock against Howe is his Stanley Cups. Gordie Howe made the playoffs in 20 of his 26 NHL seasons. And he made the Stanley Cup Finals a remarkable 11 times. But he only won four Stanley Cups. One can make the LeBron James argument here: If Gordie Howe really is the GOAT, how come his finals record is 4-7?

Listen to us talk about Gordie Howe here:

Hall of Fame Class of 1972 Part 2: Gordie Howe, Jean Beliveau

Gordie Howe’s Career:

NHL:
- 1946-71; 1979-80; 26 seasons, 25 quality
- Totals:
- 801G (3rd All Time – Gretzky, Ovechkin – 1st All Time at his initial retirement by 232; Howe was the career leader in goals from 1963-64 through 1993-94),
- 1049A (10th All Time – 1st All Time at his initial retirement by 300; Howe was the career leader in assists from 1957-58 through 1987-88) for
- 1850P (4th – Gretzky, Jagr, Messier – 1st All Time at his initial retirement by nearly 600; Howe was the career leader in points from 1959-60 through 1989-90);
- +160* (14th All Time at his initial retirement) in
- 1767 Games (2nd All Time – Marleau – 1st All Time at his retirement by 300; Howe was the career leader in Games Played from 1961-62 through 2019-20)
- 217.1 PS (4th All Time – Gretzky, Bourque, Luongo – 1st All Time at his retirement by nearly 69; Howe was the career leader from 1960-61 to 1994-95);
- Howe is 2nd All Time in Offensive Point Shares (Gretzky) – he was 1st All Time at his initial retirement by nearly 69 and was the career leader from 1958-59 until 1993-94
- Howe is the 15th/13th Forward All Time in Defensive Point Shares – at his initial retirement he was 3rd/1st All Time
- Per Game: At his initial retirement in 1971, Howe was
- 11th All Time in GPG
- t-5th in APG (Mikita, Esposito, Cowley, Beliveau)
- 5th in PPG (Esposito, Hull, Mikita, Beliveau; Howe was the career leader in PPG from 1953-54 through 1958-59)
- Era: Of the 13 skaters to play in at least 1148 games (14 modern seasons) between 1946 and 1971, Howe is
  - 1st in Goals (by 369)
  - 1st in GPG (by 0.17)
  - 1st in Assists (by 300)
  - 1st in APG
  - 1st in Points (669)
  - 1st in PPG (by 0.25)
  - 2nd in Plus/Minus
  - 1st in Offensive Point Shares (by more than double his teammate)
  - 8th (2nd/1st Forward) in Defensive Point Shares
  - 1st in Point Shares (by 68.7)
- 82-game average: 37G, 48A for 86P, +7*; 8.7 PS
- 3-year peak (1950-53): 70-game average of 46G, 43A for 89P
- Playoffs:
- Totals:
  - 68G (20th All Time, 3rd at his first retirement – Richard, Beliveau),
  - 92A (2nd All Time at his first retirement – Beliveau – Howe was the career leader from 1961 through 1970) for
  - 160P (t-22nd All Time, 2nd at his first retirement – Beliveau – Howe was the career leader 1964 through 1970),
  - +6* in
  - 157 games (3rd All Time at his first retirement – Kelly, Beliveau)
  - Per Game: At his first retirement, Howe was
    - T-5th All Time in playoff GPG (Richard, Hull, Drillon, Beliveau)
    - T-6th All Time in playoff APG
    - T-4th All Time in playoff PPG (Hull, Beliveau, Blake)
  - Era: Of the 42 skaters to play in at least 82 playoff games between 1946 and 1971, Howe is
    - 2nd in playoff Goals (behind by 12)
    - T-4th in playoff GPG
    - 2nd in playoff Assists
    - 4th in playoff APG
    - 2nd in playoff Points (behind by 18)
    - 3rd in playoff PPG
    - T-18th in playoff Plus/Minus
    - 3rd in playoff Games
- Adjustment for Era:
- Hockey-Reference:
  - 925G (1st All Time),
  - 1265A (2nd – Gretzky) for
  - 2190P (2nd – Gretzky)
  - Adjusted 82-game average: 43G, 59A for 102P (+16P per 82 games)
  - Per Game:
    - T-23rd All Time in Adjusted GPG
    - T-15th All Time in Adjusted APG
    - T-13th All Time in Adjusted PPG
- VsX:
  - 1181 Goals (1st All Time by over 300)
  - 1711 Assists (2nd All Time – Gretzky)
  - 2444 Points (1st All Time)
  - Per Game:
    - T-19th All Time in VsX GPG
    - 22nd All Time in VsX APG
    - 22nd All Time in VsX PPG
    - If the qualifier is raised to 820 games played, Howe is
      - 5th All time in VsX GPG (Richard, Hull, Geoffrion, Lemieux)
      - 3rd All Time in VsX APG (Gretzky, Lemieux)
      - 4th All Time in VsX PPG (Gretzky, Lemieux, Richard)
      - If the qualifier is set to 1230 games, Howe is
        
        1st All Time in VsX GPG
        
        2nd All Time in VsX APG (Gretzky)
        
        2nd All Time in VsX PPG (Gretzky)
Never traded.

WHA: 1973-79; 6 seasons, all quality174G (16th),
- Totals:
- 334A (7th) for
- 508P (7th),
- +136 (7th) in
- 419 games
- Per Game:
  - 6th All Time in APG
  - 8th All Time in PPG
- 82-game average: 34G, 66A for 99P, +27
- 3-year peak (1973-76): 78-game average of 34G, 72A for 106P, +30
- Playoffs:
  - 28G (t-6th All Time),
  - 43A (6th All Time) for
  - 71P (4th All Time – Mark Howe, Hull, Bernier) in
  - 78 games (1st All Time)
  - Per Game:
    - 17th All Time in playoff GPG
    - 13th All Time in playoff APG
    - 13th All Time in playoff PPG
- Never traded.

Gordie Howe’s Accomplishments:

NHL:
- Hart (’52, ’53, ’57, ’58, ’60, ’63) – 2nd most ever (Gretzky)
- Top 5 in Hart voting a further ten times – probably the most ever
- NHL’s 100 Greatest Players
- Back Check MVP (’51, ’52, ’53, ’54, ’57, ’63)
- Back Check Best Player (’51, ’52, ’53, ’54, ’57, ’63)
- Art Ross (’51, ’52, ’53, ’54, ’57, ’58, ’60, ’63) – 2nd most ever (Gretzky)
- Rocket Richard* (‘51, ‘52, ‘53, ‘57’63) – t-4th most ever (Ovechkin, Hull, Esposito)
- All Star:
  - 1st Team All Star twelve times (2nd most ever – Bourque)
  - 2nd Team All Star nine times (most ever) – most NHL All Star Team appearances ever
  - 23 All Star Game appearances (most ever)
- Top Player:
  - Best Player (by Point Shares) once (’53),
  - Top 5 nine times (’51, ’52, ’54, ’56, ’57, ’63, ’68, ’69) – 5th most ever (Gretzky, Broda, Hall, Bourque)
  - Top 10 sixteen times (’50, ’55, ’58, ’59, ’62, ’65, ’66) – most ever
  - Best Offensive Player (by Offensive Point Shares) six times (’51, ’52, ’53, ’54, ’57, ’63) t-2nd most ever (Gretzky)
  - Top 5 seventeen times (’50, ’55, ’56, ’58, ’59, ’62, ’64, ’65, ’66, ’68, ’69) – most ever
  - Top 10 twenty-one times (’60, ’61, ’67, ’70) – most ever (Gretzky is in second with 14)
- Goals:
  - Leader-boards:
    - Led the NHL in Goals five times (t-4th most ever – Ovechkin, Hull, Esposito)
    - Top 5 fourteen times (t-most ever)
    - Top 10 nineteen times (most ever)
  - GPG leader-boards:
    - Led the NHL in GPG three times (t-8th most ever)
    - Top 5 fourteen times (most ever)
    - Top 10 nineteen times (most ever)
  - Single-season goal totals:
    - Scored 45 goals twice (1 of only 6 players to do so at his first retirement)
    - 40 goals five times (1 of only 2 players at his first retirement – Hull)
    - 35 goals nine times (1 of only 17 players ever, 1 of only 2 players at his first retirement – Hull)
    - 30 goals fourteen times (1 of only 6 players ever, the only player ever at his first retirement)
    - 25 goals twenty times (the only player ever)
    - 20 goals twenty-two times (the only player ever)
- Assists:
  - Leader-boards:
    - Led the NHL in Assists three times (t-3rd most ever – Gretzky, Orr)
    - Top 5 seventeen times (t-most ever)
    - Top 10 twenty-two times (most ever)
  - APG leader-boards
    - Led the NHL in APG twice (t-9th most ever)
    - Top 5 fifteen times (2nd most ever – Gretzky)
    - Top 10 twenty-one times (most ever)
  - Single-season assist totals:
    - 50 assists once (1 of only 25 players to do so at his first retirement)
    - 40 assists eighteen times (1 of only 3 players ever – Francis, Gretzky – the only player ever at his first retirement by 8)
- Points:
  - Leader-boards:
    - Led the NHL in Points six times (2nd most ever – Gretzky)
    - Top 5 twenty times (most ever)
    - Top 10 twenty-one times (most ever)
  - PPG leader-boards:
    - Led the NHL in PPG seven times (t-2nd most ever – Gretzky)
    - Top 5 nineteen times (most ever)
    - Top 10 twenty times (most ever)
  - Single-season points twice:
    - Scored 100 points once (1 of only 6 players to do so at his first retirement)
    - 90 points twice (1 of only 7 players at his first retirement)
    - 80 points eight times (the only player at his first retirement)
    - 70 points eighteen times (the only player ever)
    - 60 points twenty one times (still the only player ever)
    - 50 points twenty-two times (t-most ever, only player at his initial retirement)
- Plus-Minus:
  - Top 5 in Plus Minus once
  - Top 10 three times
- VsX:
  - Best 7 Seasons:
    - 3rd All Time in Goals (Bobby Hull, Richard)
    - 8th All Time in Assists
    - 3rd All Time in Points (Gretzky, Esposito)
  - Best 10 Seasons:
    - 3rd All Time in Goals (Bobby Hull, Richard)
    - 6th All Time in Assists
    - 2nd All Time in Points (Gretzky)
WHA (Gordie Howe was in his mid to late 40s when he played in the WHA):
- Gordie Howe Trophy (’74)
- All Star:
  - 1st All Star Team twice
- Goals:
  - Scored 30 goals five times
- Assists:
  - Leader-boards:
    - Top 5 in Assists once
    - Top 10 four times
  - APG leader-boards:
    - Top 5 in APG twice
    - Top 10 four times
  - Single-season totals:
    - 70 assists once
    - 60 assists four times
    - 40 assists five times
- Points:
  - Leader-boards:
    - Top 5 in Points once,
    - Top 10 four times
  - PPG leader-boards:
    - Top 5 in PPG once,
    - Top 10 three times
  - Single-season totals:
    - 100 points twice
    - 90 points four times
    - 60 points five times.
Playoffs:
- Led 8 playoff series in Points (t-9th All Time and only Original Six player in the Top 10)
- Top 3 in points in 17 career playoff series (t-5th most All Time – Gretzky, Messier, Crosby, Lemieux)
- Led 27% of his career playoff series in points (t-24th All Time)
- Top 3 in points in 57% of his career playoff series (t-11th All Time)

Gordie Howe’s Great Teams:

NHL:
- Best Player (led the playoffs in goals, set the single season record in points – held it until 1962) one Champion (‘55 Red Wings)
- Best Player (led the playoffs in goals and points) on two Runners Up (‘49, ’64 Red Wings)
- Best Player (led the playoffs in points) on two Runners Up (’61, ’63 Red Wings)
- Best Player (by points) on one Runner Up (’56 Red Wings) and one Final Four (’57 Red Wings),
- Best Skater (by points) on one Champion (’54 Red Wings)
- Top 3 Forward (led the playoffs in assists and points) on one Champion (’52 Red Wings)
- Top 3 Forward (by points) on five Final Fours (’51, ’53, ’58, ’60, ’65 Red Wings)
- Top 6 Forward (by points) on one Runner Up (’66 Red Wings)
- Top 9 Forward (by points) on one Runner Up (’48 Red Wings)
- Role Player (by points) on one Final Four (’47 Red Wings)
- Injured on one Champion (’50 Red Wings)
WHA (Howe was in his mid to late 40s when he played in the WHA):
- Top 3 Forward (by points) on two Avco Cup Champions (‘74, ’75 Aeros),
- Top 6 forward (by points) on two Runners Up (’76 Aeros, ‘78 Whalers) and one Final Four (’77 Aeros),
- Role Player (by points) on one Final Four (’79 Whalers)
Summit Series:
- Top 6? Player (by points) on one Summit Series Runner Up (’74 Canada)

Is Bobby Hull the Greatest Left Wing of All Time?

Many 21st century hockey fans likely think the answer to the question “Who is the Greatest Left Winger of All Time?” has an easy answer, Alex Ovechkin.

But it’s possible we don’t remember how dominant Bobby Hull truly was. Hull won 2 Hart trophies and 3 Art Ross trophies. But he was a Hart finalist for most of a decade. Additionally, he was, by most standards, the best offensive player of his era, both in the regular season and, crucially, in the playoffs.

And then he went to another league and dominated it in his late 30s. (It’s possible his departure to the WHA colours how we think of his career.)

So, is Bobby Hull the Greatest LW of All Time? Listen here:

Does Dave Keon Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

For some Dave Keon is perhaps the best defensive forward of the 1960s and one of the Greatest Maple Leafs of All Time.

For others, Keon’s per game numbers leave a lot to be desired. And his offensive numbers during the 1967 playoffs do not justify his Conn Smythe.

So, does Dave Keon belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

List to us discuss his Hall of Fame case here:

Is Paul Coffey the Greatest Offensive Defenceman of All Time?

Paul Coffey’s offensive stats are just staggering. He owns the single season goals record for a defender and almost topped Orr’s points record. He had both an extremely high offensive peak and also did things consistently through his career that few have ever done before. If he was healthier at the end, he probably would be the highest scoring D in NHL history.

But, especially in the ’80s, there were huge concerns about his defense. And some people still believe he should have played forward.

So where does he rank all time? Does such a player belong in the Hall of Fame?

Listen to us talk about Paul Coffey here:

Is Ron Francis One of the Great Centres in NHL History?

Ron Francis undoubtedly belongs in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Skaters who played as long as he did and were as consistently good as he was always get in.

by akulawolf / CC BY-SA (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)

But the real question is, how good was he? He was never really a top offensive star and his best years came as the second line centre on a team with two of the best forwards in history (and one of the two candidates for best centre ever).

Listen to us debate Francis’ career here:

Does Pat Verbeek Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

The “Little Ball of Hate” scored 500 goals and racked up nearly 3,000 penalty minutes. But otherwise, he doesn’t have much of a case to join the Hall of Fame, it would seem. So why did we talk about him?

Well, find out by listening to this episode:

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Stats:

Does Mark Howe Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

When Mark Howe was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame there was some controversy: They inducted who???

But Mark Howe was one of the elite NHL defensemen of the 1980s. Before that, he was one of the best forwards in the WHA.

We talk about Mark How’s case in our latest episode. Listen here:

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Mark Howe’s stats:

Does Tim Kerr Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

Who is the only eligible NHL player to be in the Top 10 in Goals Per Game but not in the Hall of Fame? Why it’s Tim Kerr, who is 10th All Time in GPG and, yes, not in the Hockey Hall of Fame.

How is it that one of the best goal scorers in the history of the NHL is no the the Hall of Fame? We talk about that, and Kerr’s overall case in general, in this episode.

Listen here:

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Tim Kerr’s stats:

Does Brendan Shanahan Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

Does Brendan Shanahan belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

It’s a silly question about one of the greatest power forwards ever. We still ask it and talk about his case.

You can listen here:

Does Chris Pronger Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

Chris Pronger was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame even while under contract to an NHL team. What was the rush inducting while he was still technically active? Was he really that good.

In this episode we discuss Pronger’s career and his HOF case.

Listen here: