Merger to Lockout

Is Gordie Howe the Greatest of All Time?

Prior to Bobby Orr‘s arrival, there was a consensus hockey GOAT (Greatest of All Time), Gordie Howe. That was due both to Howe’s dominance but, more importantly, his unprecedented longevity. Howe may have only been the best player in the NHL for six or so seasons, but he was one of the 10 best players in the NHL for over two decades.

Since then, there are a few other contenders for the throne. And the biggest knock against Howe is his Stanley Cups. Gordie Howe made the playoffs in 20 of his 26 NHL seasons. And he made the Stanley Cup Finals a remarkable 11 times. But he only won four Stanley Cups. One can make the LeBron James argument here: If Gordie Howe really is the GOAT, how come his finals record is 4-7?

Listen to us talk about Gordie Howe here:

Hall of Fame Class of 1972 Part 2: Gordie Howe, Jean Beliveau

Gordie Howe’s Career:

NHL:
- 1946-71; 1979-80; 26 seasons, 25 quality
- Totals:
- 801G (3rd All Time – Gretzky, Ovechkin – 1st All Time at his initial retirement by 232; Howe was the career leader in goals from 1963-64 through 1993-94),
- 1049A (10th All Time – 1st All Time at his initial retirement by 300; Howe was the career leader in assists from 1957-58 through 1987-88) for
- 1850P (4th – Gretzky, Jagr, Messier – 1st All Time at his initial retirement by nearly 600; Howe was the career leader in points from 1959-60 through 1989-90);
- +160* (14th All Time at his initial retirement) in
- 1767 Games (2nd All Time – Marleau – 1st All Time at his retirement by 300; Howe was the career leader in Games Played from 1961-62 through 2019-20)
- 217.1 PS (4th All Time – Gretzky, Bourque, Luongo – 1st All Time at his retirement by nearly 69; Howe was the career leader from 1960-61 to 1994-95);
- Howe is 2nd All Time in Offensive Point Shares (Gretzky) – he was 1st All Time at his initial retirement by nearly 69 and was the career leader from 1958-59 until 1993-94
- Howe is the 15th/13th Forward All Time in Defensive Point Shares – at his initial retirement he was 3rd/1st All Time
- Per Game: At his initial retirement in 1971, Howe was
- 11th All Time in GPG
- t-5th in APG (Mikita, Esposito, Cowley, Beliveau)
- 5th in PPG (Esposito, Hull, Mikita, Beliveau; Howe was the career leader in PPG from 1953-54 through 1958-59)
- Era: Of the 13 skaters to play in at least 1148 games (14 modern seasons) between 1946 and 1971, Howe is
  - 1st in Goals (by 369)
  - 1st in GPG (by 0.17)
  - 1st in Assists (by 300)
  - 1st in APG
  - 1st in Points (669)
  - 1st in PPG (by 0.25)
  - 2nd in Plus/Minus
  - 1st in Offensive Point Shares (by more than double his teammate)
  - 8th (2nd/1st Forward) in Defensive Point Shares
  - 1st in Point Shares (by 68.7)
- 82-game average: 37G, 48A for 86P, +7*; 8.7 PS
- 3-year peak (1950-53): 70-game average of 46G, 43A for 89P
- Playoffs:
- Totals:
  - 68G (20th All Time, 3rd at his first retirement – Richard, Beliveau),
  - 92A (2nd All Time at his first retirement – Beliveau – Howe was the career leader from 1961 through 1970) for
  - 160P (t-22nd All Time, 2nd at his first retirement – Beliveau – Howe was the career leader 1964 through 1970),
  - +6* in
  - 157 games (3rd All Time at his first retirement – Kelly, Beliveau)
  - Per Game: At his first retirement, Howe was
    - T-5th All Time in playoff GPG (Richard, Hull, Drillon, Beliveau)
    - T-6th All Time in playoff APG
    - T-4th All Time in playoff PPG (Hull, Beliveau, Blake)
  - Era: Of the 42 skaters to play in at least 82 playoff games between 1946 and 1971, Howe is
    - 2nd in playoff Goals (behind by 12)
    - T-4th in playoff GPG
    - 2nd in playoff Assists
    - 4th in playoff APG
    - 2nd in playoff Points (behind by 18)
    - 3rd in playoff PPG
    - T-18th in playoff Plus/Minus
    - 3rd in playoff Games
- Adjustment for Era:
- Hockey-Reference:
  - 925G (1st All Time),
  - 1265A (2nd – Gretzky) for
  - 2190P (2nd – Gretzky)
  - Adjusted 82-game average: 43G, 59A for 102P (+16P per 82 games)
  - Per Game:
    - T-23rd All Time in Adjusted GPG
    - T-15th All Time in Adjusted APG
    - T-13th All Time in Adjusted PPG
- VsX:
  - 1181 Goals (1st All Time by over 300)
  - 1711 Assists (2nd All Time – Gretzky)
  - 2444 Points (1st All Time)
  - Per Game:
    - T-19th All Time in VsX GPG
    - 22nd All Time in VsX APG
    - 22nd All Time in VsX PPG
    - If the qualifier is raised to 820 games played, Howe is
      - 5th All time in VsX GPG (Richard, Hull, Geoffrion, Lemieux)
      - 3rd All Time in VsX APG (Gretzky, Lemieux)
      - 4th All Time in VsX PPG (Gretzky, Lemieux, Richard)
      - If the qualifier is set to 1230 games, Howe is
        
        1st All Time in VsX GPG
        
        2nd All Time in VsX APG (Gretzky)
        
        2nd All Time in VsX PPG (Gretzky)
Never traded.

WHA: 1973-79; 6 seasons, all quality174G (16th),
- Totals:
- 334A (7th) for
- 508P (7th),
- +136 (7th) in
- 419 games
- Per Game:
  - 6th All Time in APG
  - 8th All Time in PPG
- 82-game average: 34G, 66A for 99P, +27
- 3-year peak (1973-76): 78-game average of 34G, 72A for 106P, +30
- Playoffs:
  - 28G (t-6th All Time),
  - 43A (6th All Time) for
  - 71P (4th All Time – Mark Howe, Hull, Bernier) in
  - 78 games (1st All Time)
  - Per Game:
    - 17th All Time in playoff GPG
    - 13th All Time in playoff APG
    - 13th All Time in playoff PPG
- Never traded.

Gordie Howe’s Accomplishments:

NHL:
- Hart (’52, ’53, ’57, ’58, ’60, ’63) – 2nd most ever (Gretzky)
- Top 5 in Hart voting a further ten times – probably the most ever
- NHL’s 100 Greatest Players
- Back Check MVP (’51, ’52, ’53, ’54, ’57, ’63)
- Back Check Best Player (’51, ’52, ’53, ’54, ’57, ’63)
- Art Ross (’51, ’52, ’53, ’54, ’57, ’58, ’60, ’63) – 2nd most ever (Gretzky)
- Rocket Richard* (‘51, ‘52, ‘53, ‘57’63) – t-4th most ever (Ovechkin, Hull, Esposito)
- All Star:
  - 1st Team All Star twelve times (2nd most ever – Bourque)
  - 2nd Team All Star nine times (most ever) – most NHL All Star Team appearances ever
  - 23 All Star Game appearances (most ever)
- Top Player:
  - Best Player (by Point Shares) once (’53),
  - Top 5 nine times (’51, ’52, ’54, ’56, ’57, ’63, ’68, ’69) – 5th most ever (Gretzky, Broda, Hall, Bourque)
  - Top 10 sixteen times (’50, ’55, ’58, ’59, ’62, ’65, ’66) – most ever
  - Best Offensive Player (by Offensive Point Shares) six times (’51, ’52, ’53, ’54, ’57, ’63) t-2nd most ever (Gretzky)
  - Top 5 seventeen times (’50, ’55, ’56, ’58, ’59, ’62, ’64, ’65, ’66, ’68, ’69) – most ever
  - Top 10 twenty-one times (’60, ’61, ’67, ’70) – most ever (Gretzky is in second with 14)
- Goals:
  - Leader-boards:
    - Led the NHL in Goals five times (t-4th most ever – Ovechkin, Hull, Esposito)
    - Top 5 fourteen times (t-most ever)
    - Top 10 nineteen times (most ever)
  - GPG leader-boards:
    - Led the NHL in GPG three times (t-8th most ever)
    - Top 5 fourteen times (most ever)
    - Top 10 nineteen times (most ever)
  - Single-season goal totals:
    - Scored 45 goals twice (1 of only 6 players to do so at his first retirement)
    - 40 goals five times (1 of only 2 players at his first retirement – Hull)
    - 35 goals nine times (1 of only 17 players ever, 1 of only 2 players at his first retirement – Hull)
    - 30 goals fourteen times (1 of only 6 players ever, the only player ever at his first retirement)
    - 25 goals twenty times (the only player ever)
    - 20 goals twenty-two times (the only player ever)
- Assists:
  - Leader-boards:
    - Led the NHL in Assists three times (t-3rd most ever – Gretzky, Orr)
    - Top 5 seventeen times (t-most ever)
    - Top 10 twenty-two times (most ever)
  - APG leader-boards
    - Led the NHL in APG twice (t-9th most ever)
    - Top 5 fifteen times (2nd most ever – Gretzky)
    - Top 10 twenty-one times (most ever)
  - Single-season assist totals:
    - 50 assists once (1 of only 25 players to do so at his first retirement)
    - 40 assists eighteen times (1 of only 3 players ever – Francis, Gretzky – the only player ever at his first retirement by 8)
- Points:
  - Leader-boards:
    - Led the NHL in Points six times (2nd most ever – Gretzky)
    - Top 5 twenty times (most ever)
    - Top 10 twenty-one times (most ever)
  - PPG leader-boards:
    - Led the NHL in PPG seven times (t-2nd most ever – Gretzky)
    - Top 5 nineteen times (most ever)
    - Top 10 twenty times (most ever)
  - Single-season points twice:
    - Scored 100 points once (1 of only 6 players to do so at his first retirement)
    - 90 points twice (1 of only 7 players at his first retirement)
    - 80 points eight times (the only player at his first retirement)
    - 70 points eighteen times (the only player ever)
    - 60 points twenty one times (still the only player ever)
    - 50 points twenty-two times (t-most ever, only player at his initial retirement)
- Plus-Minus:
  - Top 5 in Plus Minus once
  - Top 10 three times
- VsX:
  - Best 7 Seasons:
    - 3rd All Time in Goals (Bobby Hull, Richard)
    - 8th All Time in Assists
    - 3rd All Time in Points (Gretzky, Esposito)
  - Best 10 Seasons:
    - 3rd All Time in Goals (Bobby Hull, Richard)
    - 6th All Time in Assists
    - 2nd All Time in Points (Gretzky)
WHA (Gordie Howe was in his mid to late 40s when he played in the WHA):
- Gordie Howe Trophy (’74)
- All Star:
  - 1st All Star Team twice
- Goals:
  - Scored 30 goals five times
- Assists:
  - Leader-boards:
    - Top 5 in Assists once
    - Top 10 four times
  - APG leader-boards:
    - Top 5 in APG twice
    - Top 10 four times
  - Single-season totals:
    - 70 assists once
    - 60 assists four times
    - 40 assists five times
- Points:
  - Leader-boards:
    - Top 5 in Points once,
    - Top 10 four times
  - PPG leader-boards:
    - Top 5 in PPG once,
    - Top 10 three times
  - Single-season totals:
    - 100 points twice
    - 90 points four times
    - 60 points five times.
Playoffs:
- Led 8 playoff series in Points (t-9th All Time and only Original Six player in the Top 10)
- Top 3 in points in 17 career playoff series (t-5th most All Time – Gretzky, Messier, Crosby, Lemieux)
- Led 27% of his career playoff series in points (t-24th All Time)
- Top 3 in points in 57% of his career playoff series (t-11th All Time)

Gordie Howe’s Great Teams:

NHL:
- Best Player (led the playoffs in goals, set the single season record in points – held it until 1962) one Champion (‘55 Red Wings)
- Best Player (led the playoffs in goals and points) on two Runners Up (‘49, ’64 Red Wings)
- Best Player (led the playoffs in points) on two Runners Up (’61, ’63 Red Wings)
- Best Player (by points) on one Runner Up (’56 Red Wings) and one Final Four (’57 Red Wings),
- Best Skater (by points) on one Champion (’54 Red Wings)
- Top 3 Forward (led the playoffs in assists and points) on one Champion (’52 Red Wings)
- Top 3 Forward (by points) on five Final Fours (’51, ’53, ’58, ’60, ’65 Red Wings)
- Top 6 Forward (by points) on one Runner Up (’66 Red Wings)
- Top 9 Forward (by points) on one Runner Up (’48 Red Wings)
- Role Player (by points) on one Final Four (’47 Red Wings)
- Injured on one Champion (’50 Red Wings)
WHA (Howe was in his mid to late 40s when he played in the WHA):
- Top 3 Forward (by points) on two Avco Cup Champions (‘74, ’75 Aeros),
- Top 6 forward (by points) on two Runners Up (’76 Aeros, ‘78 Whalers) and one Final Four (’77 Aeros),
- Role Player (by points) on one Final Four (’79 Whalers)
Summit Series:
- Top 6? Player (by points) on one Summit Series Runner Up (’74 Canada)

Does Marc Tardif Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

Marc Tardif was one of the best players in WHA history, winning two MVP awards and dominating the regular season. He also won a Championship.

His NHL career was less successful, though he did win two Stanley Cups.

So, does Marc Tardif belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

Does Real Cloutier Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

Real Cloutier was one of the WHA’s greatest stars but his NHL career was cut short by injuries.

Is his remarkable WHA career enough to get him in the Hall of Fame?

Listen to us talk about Real Cloutier’s Hall of Fame case here:

Is Bobby Hull the Greatest Left Wing of All Time?

Many 21st century hockey fans likely think the answer to the question “Who is the Greatest Left Winger of All Time?” has an easy answer, Alex Ovechkin.

But it’s possible we don’t remember how dominant Bobby Hull truly was. Hull won 2 Hart trophies and 3 Art Ross trophies. But he was a Hart finalist for most of a decade. Additionally, he was, by most standards, the best offensive player of his era, both in the regular season and, crucially, in the playoffs.

And then he went to another league and dominated it in his late 30s. (It’s possible his departure to the WHA colours how we think of his career.)

So, is Bobby Hull the Greatest LW of All Time? Listen here:

Is Phil Esposito one of the Greatest Centres of All Time?

Boston Bruins, Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons

Why is it that we (our generation anyway) have trouble thinking of Esposito as one of the greatest hockey players of all time? Is it because he was on the same team as Bobby Orr, whose legend has endured far better? Is it because of Esposito’s extraordinarily unathletic physique? Is it because everything he did has since been done multiple times by multiple players so those records feel less important?

We have no idea, but Espo was the most dominant offensive player between Howe and Gretzky. (We read somewhere that Lafleur was the most dominant offensive player between Howe and Gretzky, but we don’t see evidence to back that up.)

Sure, Espo benefited from playing more games per season in the newly expanded league (someone was going to set records) and, yes, he benefited from playing with the Greatest of All Time, but lesser players wouldn’t have excelled the way he did, over such a long period of time.

Listen to us talk about Esposito here:

Does Jean Ratelle Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

By regular season numbers, Jean Ratelle was one of the best forwards of his era. And, had he been healthy in his best season, he might have competed for the scoring title. (His peers awarded him with the Pearson for that.)

However, his playoff numbers are noticeably worse. And, of course, he never won a Cup.

So, how great was Jean Ratelle? Is he one of the greats of his era or does his longevity make him look better than he was? Listen to us discuss Ratelle’s Hall of Fame case here:

Does Gerry Cheevers Belong in the Hockey hall of Fame?

Gerry Cheevers was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame only five years after he retired. And yet he has one of the weakest resumes of any Hall of Fame goalie, and that resume is significantly weaker than some goalies who are not in the Hall of Fame.

Cheevers was never an end-of-season All Star (1st or 2nd Team) in the NHL, he never won an award and he never led the NHL in any regular season statistical category. His regular achievements all happened in the WHA.

However, he went to four Stanley Cup finals and won two Cups. And while he was in the WHA, he was one of the very best goalies in the league.

So, does Gerry Cheevers belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame? Listen to us discuss his case here:

Does Serge Savard Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

There are basically only 3 post-Bobby Orr defensive defencemen in the Hockey Hall of Fame. (And Savard actually is a contemporary of Bobby Orr, so maybe there are only two.) It’s hard to get in as a defensive defenceman when so many D score now.

On the other hand, there are few NHL players in NHL history to have a higher career plus minus than career points total. Savard is one of those players. And if Savard had never played for the Jets, his utterly insane plus minus would be even higher than his total points.

Is it possible that Savard’s remarkable goal differential is a product of his Hall of Fame teammates? In part, sure. But it’s a chicken or egg question, isn’t it?

So, does Serge Savard belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

Listen to us discuss it here:

Does Dave Keon Belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

For some Dave Keon is perhaps the best defensive forward of the 1960s and one of the Greatest Maple Leafs of All Time.

For others, Keon’s per game numbers leave a lot to be desired. And his offensive numbers during the 1967 playoffs do not justify his Conn Smythe.

So, does Dave Keon belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

List to us discuss his Hall of Fame case here:

Why is Ed Giacomin in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

We don’t know exactly what happened between 1987 and now, but the standards for goalie admission got a lot stricter. (Well, we do know that goalie stats got better.) It’s so hard to get admitted into the Hall of Fame as a goalie now, but when Ed Giacomin was inducted, it seems like it was less hard.

Why?

Giacomin has good traditional stats, such as wins. And it’s arguable he was the Most Valuable Goalie in the league for four seasons.

But he was never the best goalie in the league by Save Percentage, Goals Saved Above Average or even GAA – that Vezina is for total Goals Against – and his peak only lasted about four years. The rest of his regular season career is not outstanding (especially as he got older).

Additionally, his playoff numbers aren’t great.

So does Ed Giacomin actually belong in the Hockey Hall of Fame? Listen to us discuss it here: